conworlds.info

[Phelix]

So I starting running a Fantasycraft campaign (Pen & Paper RPG) and have been working on a world to use with it. Well we have one player who usually plays elves or elf-like beings and within my world Ive taken the Tolkien idea of immortal elves, the player when deciding his age asked at what age would they be considered adults, which I had not thought of before. So I ask you now.

When would an immortal race reach maturity, both mentally & physically, and when would they be culturally considered adults?

(if any mods consider this more appropriate for the culture forum then please move it, but since its a question about both mental & physical I thought it should fit in the biology section since physical maturity would probably play a role in when the mental maturity & cultural maturity kicked in)

[Cerne]

[bloodb4roses]

In nature, some species(es) of sea turtles could theoretically live indefinitely (barring death by injury or disease) with the oldest on record being about 450 years old, and the average is probably about 80 years for those that survive past their first year. It takes decades for them to reach sexual maturity. If we assume that cultural maturity will be about the same age or after they mature sexually (and full "maturity" being reached possibly later), then a sentient sea turtle might be seen as mature after the few decades it takes to mature sexually.

For a species I made, danpyr, who live on average for several centuries, I decided they would take a relatively short time in becoming sexually/physically mature (about 40-50 years), but being seen as an adult ranges from 80 to 150 years, if it isn't based on an achievement one performs to be considered an adult.

As a shorthand rule, a sentient species will not see an individual as an adult until they are sexually mature. In shorter lived species, this will occur at about 1/5 of their normal lifespan, but in longer lived peoples it would be good to give them plenty of time since they don't need to reproduce as much. At least a decade, and likely several.

(Unless they are like sentient, immortal rabbits: ie, they reproduce quickly but get eaten by everything unless they are especially quick/smart/strong)
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[Cerne]

[bloodb4roses]

[Phelix]

Thanks for the replies, I believe Ill have my elves reach maturity at the same rate as humans (16-21) physically and too humans they will appear mature, but elves wont consider them mature till they are have experienced (at least) their first century.

Essentially other races will view elves as mature around the same time that their race would be considered mature.

[vaja]

[chiarizio]

Since this is the "science" section, I'm going to talk about your immortals scientifically.

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It might make better sense if they were immortal only until puberty.

Perhaps puberty could be put off indefinitely, whether voluntarily or by reason of circumstances. For instance, like certain birds, maybe they can't mature as long as the parent of the same sex is still around, or maybe not as long as the parent of the opposite sex is still around. Or, like clownfish and naked mole-rats, maybe they don't mature as long as there's a bigger individual of their sex around.

Or, maybe they could be immortal unless and until they reproduced; upon which time they would begin aging.

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Any population of really immortal specimens, in which the average member has at least one-and-a-fraction offspring, will grow indefinitely numerous --- geometrically. To prevent that, either make them not "really immortal" or impose a hard upper limit of "one (and, no, not a fraction)" to the number of offspring per individual.

(BTW even that works only if it takes at least two parents to conceive a new individual. A population of parthenogenetic immortals will increase arithmetically, rather than geometrically, but still without limit, if each individual has exactly one offspring.)

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How can the species evolve if there isn't differential reproductive success, and if the older generation never dies?

Maybe they don't die of old age until they reproduce, or until they're physiologically capable to reproduce; but then you'd need to make them killable, or at least sterilizable.

And they won't evolve through natural selection unless some individuals might have more offspring than others.

Say nobody can have more than two sons nor more than two daughters nor more than three children.

The population will still grow geometrically unless the people with two sons are balanced by those with no sons, and the people with two daughters are balanced by those with no daughters, and the people with three children are balanced by those with at most one child.
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The mark of a good citizen is that he doesn't believe anything if he can help it.
-- W.B. Yapp
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I am also eldin raigmore.

[Phelix]

Hmmmmm, I could also do tolkiens idea of the world is dangerous, like very dangerous. This even helps play to some of the rules within the game (the elves have a rule which essentially means they have lived so long they almost dont want to live anymore and they only ever receive 1/2 healing)

and the overpopulation problem of immortals seems to fix itself with issues such as a (extremely) less active sex drive. As for aging, they would stop at maturity, with the exception of the sort of "knowing" look you see in older tolkien elves (Elrond & Galadriel dont look old, but you can see wisdom in their eyes)

Another idea is perhaps they are immortal bodily but have a limited life span in their minds. Essentially at some point or another they get "sick" of living and either kill themselves, or they go off to seek death in combat.

[bloodb4roses]

[Phelix]

Hmmm thats an interesting idea. I kind of want it to be "of their own accord" kind of thing, where they essentially are immortal but can choose when to die.

[vaja]

Then you may put it like this:
They die from starving and accidents or battle injuries, but their regeneration is fast and heals even severe injuries. Nevertheless, this regeneration needs energy from food and requires time, of course.
Basically, they "heal" faster than they age, which is what makes them immortal. That would mean they age when they starve, still slowly, but they do. The perception of immortality may then be achieved by their great ability to rejuvenate.

[Cerne]

[bloodb4roses]

[Phelix]

[chiarizio]

[vaja]

[Cerne]

[bloodb4roses]

[chiarizio]

[vaja]

[chiarizio]

[vaja]

[chiarizio]

@Phelix