conworlds.info

[bloodb4roses]

Or at least where it's a rarity. Kade's conworld, Mtali (which I keep wanting to type "Malti"), got me thinking about worlds that realistically wouldn't have metal working or where metal itself would be a rarity. Like some of the first rocky worlds in this universe (or a very close alternate universe as far as laws go), or a universe with very different physics that disallow metal-analogues, since we really can't say that a "metal" in a universe with very different laws is really "metal" like we think of.

I had wanted to do an early-rock-planet conworld but it's been at the back of my mind. Plus I have two worlds for novels and one world just as a personal sandbox already.

But does anyone else have thoughts on metallurgy or metal lacking worlds?
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[kyonides]

Maybe gravity would prevent them from working metal due to its excesive weight or mercury is the only available metal and kills anyone who doesn't know how to securely handle it.
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[darkworldsawake]

Here's an idea:

Every substance has an animating spirit--however, said spirits exist outside of time and causality. The spirits of metals, seeing the violence that they have the potential to cause, make metal difficult and/or dangerous to work with.

@kyoniides wouldn't such gravity also prevent them from working stone?

Also, @bloodb4roses, isn't that a little greedy? After all, there are only so many hypothetical universes out there.

[bloodb4roses]

[Kade]

Wow, someones been intrigued by my ideas.

Well, in short, a world without metals would require at least different humans, metal being an essential part of our diets.
Actually, a world without metals would have different animals and plants, and it would have different minerals as well.

Even a world lacking metallurgy is an unusual attempt that needs a lot of explaining. Some of you may be aware that the American natives (of both North and South America) did not possess much metalcrafting technologies. This was their main setback towards the European settlers and conquistadors, aside from the lack of explosives and horses.
This explanation may work out for one culture, but for a whole planet seems inconclusive. Instead of grabbing for magic, I applied mostly biological and religious explanations, although I prefer the latter.
If you have a population that doesn't fare well with hights, they might not be able to build in mines on mountain tops. However they might dig horizontally into the rock if the idea occurs to anyone.
Religious taboos however can have a deep effect on cultures. In fact far greater than in modern Western culture (unless of course you start analyzing how ideologies and paradigmes are treated as (additional) religions). Traditional laws may prevent anybody from even considering the idea of mining ore. Or removing metal from the sorrounding sorrounding crag. And anyone who does have such a foolish idea will be hunted down and killed. Why would such a radical gain any supporters at all, chopping at the limbs of the earth-mother goddess?

[darkworldsawake]

[Kade]

[darkworldsawake]

I'm sorry, what?

Did I just hear you suggesting that suspension of disbelief was unknown to most fantasy authors?

What?

Fantasy authors have to rely more on a suspension of disbelief than authors working in any other genre. It is the responsibility of a fantasy author to portray a world with different rules in a consistent manner, part of that consistency being that things that are different will stay different and diverge from there.

Perhaps the inhabitants of your world would have flying machines, but they probably wouldn't be lighter-than-air--if you're using hot air, your crafts won't be very useful, they'll all be hot air balloons (no dirigibles) and therefore entirely at the mercy of the winds.

I do think the premise is interesting, but it seems a bit far fetched that they'd come up with artillery and lighter-than-air flight. Wood just doesn't have the right properties for dirigible construction. Also, engines? You can't have combustion engines (wood burns, ceramic expands and contracts with heat, etc.) and you certainly can't have clockwork of any kind--even with wooden gears, how would you make springs?

[bloodb4roses]

Actually, when I have a conworld based on our physics, I don't like making "humans". The one I'm working on now has a lot of water on it (compared to Earth) and the sentient species looks a bit like seals mixed with otters, are not mammalian (but are warm blooded and have fur) and might not be able to see most of the shades of purple.
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[Kade]

Hello darkworldsawake,

[Ramses]

As for the idea of hot air powered airships:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_airship

Although, I might imagine a similar effect with multiple hot air balloons tied in rows.

As for a conworld without metal, here are some suggestions for alternate materials.

Significantly limited supply:
Sturdy plants (trees, bamboo)
Bone (possible choice for very early cultures)

Perhaps not significantly limited:
Stone/brick
Ceramic
Glass
Fabric

These are just ones I can think of. There may be more options.
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"It was not the sadness of one about to commit suicide but the melancholy of one that has been rejected."
- From a Dream

[Kade]

Hello Ramses,
Awesome thing, that thermal airship.

As for the resources, there are many, many more. You listed most of the important ones though.
Thanks a lot. There sure are many helpful people here.

[Daistallia]

I wonder if anyone's familiar with Tékumel? It's not devoid of metal, but large accessable deposits are very rare. The workaround was the the hide of the Chlen beast.

[kyonides]

[bloodb4roses]

[chiarizio]

Is the conworld purely fantasy? Maybe, purely sword-and-sorcery fantasy?
If so, you don't really need to explain why there's no metal.

Is the conworld actually in the physical universe, perhaps a planet of a star in the Milky Way or some other galaxy?

Then the planet has to have metals in order to have life; but the people living on the planet's surface may not be able to find rich-enough ores close-enough to the surface to develop metallurgy.

Don't forget nearly all of Earth's iron is in Earth's core. It got sent there by gravity when most of the then-important parts of the Earth were molten.

Unless you're going to somehow have life-forms on a gas-giant like Jupiter (or in its atmosphere or in its ocean), life would have to develop on a rocky, "terrestroid" planet. And it would need most or all of lithium, beryllium, boron, carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, fluorine, sodium, magnesium, aluminum, silicon, phosphorus, sulphur, and chlorine. (It could most easily do without the lithium, beryllium, boron, aluminum, and silicon; and maybe also the magnesium.) Lithium, beryllium, sodium, magnesium, and aluminum, are all metals; and boron and silicon are metalloids.
Many organisms require many of the elements of the fourth period, elements 19 (potassium) through 35 (bromine); of these, elements 19 (potassium) through 31 (gallium) are metals. They include iron and copper as well as many things useful as alloyants with copper or iron. Some of them are essential trace elements in all forms of life.

Maybe you could have a situation in which elements heavier than chlorine are rare enough on the surface that they're never found in large amounts in sufficiently pure ores to be useful. They might occur visibly only in precious stones; the rest might be part of the chemical make-up of various life-forms, and impossible to separate out to a usefully pure form.
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The mark of a good citizen is that he doesn't believe anything if he can help it.
-- W.B. Yapp
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I am also eldin raigmore.

[bloodb4roses]

[chiarizio]

Would they also need to be hydrogen-breathers or something?

Transport of oxygen from the environment (whether water or air) to the cells requires chemicals that contain heavier elements. Most of the transition metals in the fourth period (elements 21 through 30, Scandium through Zinc), are involved in either photosynthesis or in oxygen-transport in at least one species *here* on Earth.

Without vanadium or iron or copper to transport oxygen, or chromium or manganese for photosynthesis, or potassium or calcium for nerves and bones, I don't know that any complex animal life could evolve.

Also, selenocystine is an essential amino-acid for mitochondria; without mitochondria, how are your creatures going to get the energy to do anything useful? And selenocystine needs selenium, which is also in the fourth period (but its a metalloid in the oxygen-sulfur group in the p-block, instead of being a transition metal).

Can they breathe nitrogen or fluorine or sulfur or chlorine, instead of oxygen or hydrogen?
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The mark of a good citizen is that he doesn't believe anything if he can help it.
-- W.B. Yapp
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I am also eldin raigmore.

[su_liam]

One plausible possibility is carbonosis, as detailed on pp 52-53 of World-Building and, "Carbonosis: Organic Dessication and the Fermi Paradox," both by Stephen Gillett. Basically a solar system whose source of heavier elements was a planetary nebula rather than a supernova will tend to be richer in carbon and nitrogen than oxygen. Thus all of the oxygen gets bound up with carbon rather than some being available to bind with iron. With that, almost all of the iron dives to the core with the other siderophiles.

Once life gets going, oxygen can still be freed by photosynthesis, and traces of iron will remain on the surface. That iron will be insufficient to drive a real, "Iron Age," but may be enough for hemoglobin and the like. This would make it much like nickel on our planet, or for that matter even copper and tin. Perhaps occasional places with anomalous concentrations of iron ores will be sought after strategic prizes.

The Rust Monster might be a plausible critter on a world like this...

[chiarizio]

Neat!
Thanks, @su-liam!
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The mark of a good citizen is that he doesn't believe anything if he can help it.
-- W.B. Yapp
-----------------------------
I am also eldin raigmore.