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Velkas Conjurer

Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 235
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:16 am Post subject: Help me design some magical beings... |
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I'm currently working on a new conworld, and I have decided that I wish to have a variety of magical beings existing in this world. However, I am not sure how these beings can fit into this world, and what their natures should be. That's where you come in. I want suggestions of what these creatures should be like (no minor details yet, just what they are, how they fit into this world and it, and how they relate to each other and humanity).
So, let's start with the three types of beings I really want to include: demons, angels, and faeries.
Oh, and some more details on what I have so far on this fledgling conworld:
It's supposed to be a dark fantasy setting with steampunk elements. Very cynical tone, without a black-and-white style morality (so no evil demons vs. good angels, with good faeries off to the side). And I want to make these beings really awesome, especially the demons and the angels. I'm not sure if there should be half-human hybrids, but that might be a possibility (depending on how they turn out). And I want the magic to be somewhat mysterious and non-scientific, but beyond that, I don't have anything figured out. Oh, and I'm not sure whether or not I should have actual deities exist in my world, so I'm open to either possibility.
...That was vague. But I shall better know what I am looking for as this discussion lengthens.
If you have any ideas, please post them, for I am stuck. Help me develop the beginnings of my conworld...
Thank you. _________________ "I did tell you not to trust me, you know." |
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Sakir Conjurer


Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 222 Location: Shanghai
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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:50 am Post subject: |
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'Kinda vague', and basically it feels impossible to say anything and be sure it is at all relevant to you. What'd be 'really awesome'? Here's some ideas I guess, but I'm fumbling blind here...
1. Angels are 40-foot long winged beasts, and have been blinded for use as passenger vehicles and war mounts. Wild angels try to free the slaved ones, but also like to raid villages for human flesh to eat.
2. Demons are made of an animated liquid purple quicksilver material, and can shapeshift into various forms. They are generally pretty mean customers, having been the result of an experiment gone wrong: the experiment was an attempt to make a perfect toothpaste.
3. Faeries are a segment of the population at large that, besides having an interesting bohemian culture, are also rabidly anti-homosexual.
Or did you want basically conventional angels/demons/faeries and a cosmology to sort them out? In that case, you'd have to decide whether or not they are part of a pantheon or something. Do you have gods? Are there factions associated with them? Are they powered on faith-power? Are faeries/angels/demons qualitatively different from other creatures? Or are they just creatures of a certain phenotype?
These three are possibly the most common tropes in fantasy ever, and have been done in a myriad of different ways: which approach do you like most? We can't conworld for you  _________________ My Color Is: Decommissioned to counter the Sig-meme I helped propagate. |
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Velkas Conjurer

Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 235
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Your ideas were quite interesting, but I was looking for something closer to the norm. However, the designs I came up with yesterday seem as if they would clash with the steampunk and horror elements of this world, so I think I'm not going to include them. They had no reason to exist in my world (I may use an alternate Earth instead, though).
So here are my incomplete designs, if you're interested. I was thinking they originated from groups of humans mutated by magic. Oh, and each has a distinctive eye colour, as well.
Angels: (gold eyes) power-hungry, militaristic, society values honor and order.
Demons: (red eyes) emotional, impulsive, manipulative
Faeries: (purple eyes) value beauty and aesthetics, think in a dreamlike state, speak in riddles, strongly linked to magic.
| Quote: | | These three are possibly the most common tropes in fantasy ever | No. That would be elves, dwarves, dragons and a pseudo-Medieval European setting. (Oh, wait, that's four. Oh well.) _________________ "I did tell you not to trust me, you know." |
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Tharivious Sorcerer


Joined: 24 Aug 2008 Posts: 356 Location: 1 Wherever I May Roam
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:06 am Post subject: |
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This proved to be one of my biggest obstacles with Veghinix, as these three groups were featured pretty heavily in the lore I'd built up during its early stages. Ultimately, only the Fey wound up not being turned on their heads with various revisions until the base was just an alternate form and the name was meaningless.
Best advice that I can give is to look at some of the existing versions of the triad and see what works for you. As much as I hate to admit it, 4E D&D's take on angels and demons isn't horrible (when taken as a non-D&D game, since it goes completely against the canon of settings that had existed for 30 years prior). Angels as the servants of the gods (all gods, no less, not just the "good" ones), and demons as ancient elemental things can work out nicely with the right spin applied to it. Supernatural put an impressive spin on the angel/demon thing, too. Demons being mortals who made a bad deal with the devil, and angels being the children of God, but neither really wanting to protect anything and both working ultimately toward the same apocalyptic ending. It's not easy to work up completely original takes on angels and demons because so much has been done to try to make them different, but with a little extra effort, it can still work out.
Fey... Fey are easy to work with. Take a heavy dose of the original, gory versions of Grimm's, mix in a nice dusting of your steampunk lore, and then it's just a matter of figuring out what their motivations and societal structure is like. _________________ Veghinix Wiki
Halls of Infernus Wiki
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Velkas Conjurer

Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 235
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:54 am Post subject: |
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You know what? ...I think I'm still using them.
| Tharivious wrote: | | Angels as the servants of the gods (all gods, no less, not just the "good" ones)... | I just downloaded a pdf of the 4E Monster Manual, and the angels are awesome:
| 4E Monster Manual wrote: | | [A]ngels offered themselves as warriors to the gods that best encompassed their callings, and today they continue to act as mercenary forces for anyone willing to meet their price—be it wealth, or power, or a cause worthy of their attention. | I think that would work excellently. I was thinking of using angels as mercenaries before I saw that, now it just makes me want to do that even more. Now I just need to think of some gods, and how they relate to the world... Any advice on that, anyone?
...But what have they done to archons!? It cannot be! Now they're always chaotic evil!!! And what happened to the war between the demons of the abyss and the demons of the nine hells!? Demons used to be awesome, but now they're... mindless forces of evil? Where is the world coming to? (By the way, I have the 3.5 rulebooks, but I've never played D&D. One of these days, I hope...)
| Tharivious wrote: | | demons as ancient elemental things | Maybe. I'm not quite sure what to do with demons. They have to be awesome, and they have to somehow fit together with the elements of steampunk and horror in this world... Any advice or suggestions?
| Quote: | | Fey... Fey are easy to work with. Take a heavy dose of the original, gory versions of Grimm's, mix in a nice dusting of your steampunk lore, and then it's just a matter of figuring out what their motivations and societal structure is like. | That sounds great, but I really cannot think of how to combine fae and steampunk... Suggestions? _________________ "I did tell you not to trust me, you know." |
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Daistallia Newcomer
Joined: 17 Jul 2010 Posts: 17
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| Velkas wrote: | | Quote: | | Fey... Fey are easy to work with. Take a heavy dose of the original, gory versions of Grimm's, mix in a nice dusting of your steampunk lore, and then it's just a matter of figuring out what their motivations and societal structure is like. | That sounds great, but I really cannot think of how to combine fae and steampunk... Suggestions? |
Read Michael Swanwick's The Iron Dragon's Daughter and The Dragons of Babel, if you haven't read them already. |
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Tharivious Sorcerer


Joined: 24 Aug 2008 Posts: 356 Location: 1 Wherever I May Roam
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Velkas wrote: | You know what? ...I think I'm still using them.
| Tharivious wrote: | | Angels as the servants of the gods (all gods, no less, not just the "good" ones)... | I just downloaded a pdf of the 4E Monster Manual, and the angels are awesome:
| 4E Monster Manual wrote: | | [A]ngels offered themselves as warriors to the gods that best encompassed their callings, and today they continue to act as mercenary forces for anyone willing to meet their price—be it wealth, or power, or a cause worthy of their attention. | I think that would work excellently. I was thinking of using angels as mercenaries before I saw that, now it just makes me want to do that even more. Now I just need to think of some gods, and how they relate to the world... Any advice on that, anyone? |
Well, depending on the setting outline as it stands, you don't necessarily need gods. Or rather, you don't need living gods. If I were going with that angle, I think I'd look more toward Lovecraft for inspiration than Greenwood. Angels as servants of distant, insane entities beyond time and space with no connection to the mortal world (and therefore, to their former servants) could set up a very interesting backstory and make it very easy to break the Always Good image attached to the name. Plus, it gives the bonus of being able to play off of traditional mythology, where angels had some pretty freaky visuals themselves.
Under that scenario, you could easily find a root for your demons as the descendants of those same distant gods. About on par with the angels in terms of what they can do, but with one key difference: where the angels are cut off from their masters, the demons can't get away from them because their blood is already inside them. You could play up the sympathies for them based on their nature and create some very tragic hero-types, while still being able to use them as callous abominations.
| Velkas wrote: | | ...But what have they done to archons!? It cannot be! Now they're always chaotic evil!!! And what happened to the war between the demons of the abyss and the demons of the nine hells!? Demons used to be awesome, but now they're... mindless forces of evil? Where is the world coming to? (By the way, I have the 3.5 rulebooks, but I've never played D&D. One of these days, I hope...) |
Yeah, like I said, it's something that has to be distanced from every other version of D&D in existence to actually find any value in it. Archons, for example, were completely repurposed as elemental entities rather than a type of celestial, erasing a massive amount of the lore that they had built up. Same with the eladrin, really, since they became a basic PC race rather than the on-par-with-other-outsider celestials that they were before.
[quote="Velkas] | Quote: | | Fey... Fey are easy to work with. Take a heavy dose of the original, gory versions of Grimm's, mix in a nice dusting of your steampunk lore, and then it's just a matter of figuring out what their motivations and societal structure is like. | That sounds great, but I really cannot think of how to combine fae and steampunk... Suggestions?[/quote]
In addition to Daistallia's suggestions (haven't read them, though... might have to check those out myself), I'd say look no further than Terry Pratchett. Just about any of the unusual creatures from Discworld could be reimagined as a starting point for the fey. I'd focus heavily on a sarcastic trickster base with a large emphasis on invention and theories. But that's just a starting point. _________________ Veghinix Wiki
Halls of Infernus Wiki
Fiction and Illustration gallery |
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Velkas Conjurer

Joined: 02 Sep 2009 Posts: 235
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Angels as servants of distant, insane entities beyond time and space with no connection to the mortal world (and therefore, to their former servants) could set up a very interesting backstory and make it very easy to break the Always Good image attached to the name. | I like that idea. But why would these Ancient Ones (as I shall call them, at least for the moment) have a presence on this world in the form of demons and angels if they are so distant from the mortal world?
| Quote: | | Under that scenario, you could easily find a root for your demons as the descendants of those same distant gods. | That would be very good as well. But why would the descendants of the Ancient Ones not be Ancient Ones themselves?
| Quote: | | I'd say look no further than Terry Pratchett. Just about any of the unusual creatures from Discworld could be reimagined as a starting point for the fey. | I'll need to read some more Discworld books then. I've read the first two and the beginning of The Wee Free Folk. Which other Discworld books have good fae inspirations? And what other books in general? _________________ "I did tell you not to trust me, you know." |
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Daistallia Newcomer
Joined: 17 Jul 2010 Posts: 17
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Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Tharivious wrote: | | In addition to Daistallia's suggestions (haven't read them, though... might have to check those out myself), I'd say look no further than Terry Pratchett. Just about any of the unusual creatures from Discworld could be reimagined as a starting point for the fey. I'd focus heavily on a sarcastic trickster base with a large emphasis on invention and theories. But that's just a starting point. |
The Iron Dragon's Daughter is the story of a human child stolen by elves to breed pilots for cybernetic dragons, and the first quarter or so is set in a hellish Dickensian dragon factory.
As one review put it:
| Quote: | | On the surface, The Iron Dragon’s Daughter deploys the most clichéd genre images imaginable. Elves? Yep. Magic? Sure. Dragons? Check. Beneath the surface, however, lies a profound distrust for and impatience with those very same clichés. The result is a gleeful demolition: Swanwick appropriates these images, packs them with dynamite, and cheerfully lights the fuse. The resulting explosion is both subversive and exciting. You can almost hear Johnny Rotten laughing… |
http://www.fantasticmetropolis.com/i/irondragon/full/ |
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